Pretty much all wall boxes in the UK for domestic use are limited to 7.4kW. If you did happen to have 3 phase power at your property then you could get a three phase charger and the car would be able to pull 11.4kW. That is 16A per phase. There AC charger in the car is not capable of more than that. Very few homes in the UK have or are even capable of having three phase power. We are somewhat behind mainland Europe on that. Many/most homes in France have 3 phase power to the DP.
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Max 7.4 kw in England, really?
The installer tells me that in England a Wallbox maximum of 7.4 kw can be charged. After all, there is only one phase here. I understood that installing three phases is not possible in order to charge faster.
I don't know anything about this. What can you tell me in layman's terms?
I don't know anything about this. What can you tell me in layman's terms?
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Hey all,
It is a little bit more complex.
Electricity is mainly distributed in 2 systems: 3 phase with a neutral and 3 phase without a neutral.
The first (3phases with a neutral) has 400V between the phases and 230V between a phase and the neutral. If this is lying into your street you could ask for a 3 phase connection and you can charge your car with 11 kW (3x16A) or even 22 kW (3x32A) at home. If they only want to connect you on one phase (and a neutral line) then you are limited to 3,7 kW (1x16A) or 7,4 kW (1x32A).
The second (3phases without neutral) is more complicated. Without electrical transformer, you can not charge over 3 phases. You can still charge on one phase like above, 3,7 kW (1x16A) or 7,4 kW (1x32A).
In some cases, but not many cars are supporting it, it electrical possible to charge on 2phases. One phase will be used as neutral, the 2 others as phases. You could then charge at 7,4 kw (2x16A which should normally work if you have a 22 kW charger in your car) or 14,8kW (2x32A), but the latest causes the biggest electrical problem for the charger in the car.
What is sure is that the distribution network isn't everywhere ready for electrification.
This will still cost a lot of money to upgrade.
Hopes this clarifies.
It is a little bit more complex.
Electricity is mainly distributed in 2 systems: 3 phase with a neutral and 3 phase without a neutral.
The first (3phases with a neutral) has 400V between the phases and 230V between a phase and the neutral. If this is lying into your street you could ask for a 3 phase connection and you can charge your car with 11 kW (3x16A) or even 22 kW (3x32A) at home. If they only want to connect you on one phase (and a neutral line) then you are limited to 3,7 kW (1x16A) or 7,4 kW (1x32A).
The second (3phases without neutral) is more complicated. Without electrical transformer, you can not charge over 3 phases. You can still charge on one phase like above, 3,7 kW (1x16A) or 7,4 kW (1x32A).
In some cases, but not many cars are supporting it, it electrical possible to charge on 2phases. One phase will be used as neutral, the 2 others as phases. You could then charge at 7,4 kw (2x16A which should normally work if you have a 22 kW charger in your car) or 14,8kW (2x32A), but the latest causes the biggest electrical problem for the charger in the car.
What is sure is that the distribution network isn't everywhere ready for electrification.
This will still cost a lot of money to upgrade.
Hopes this clarifies.
In the UK, we don't have 3 phase with no neutral supplied even to commercial premises as far as I know. Most home only have single phase and the electricity board will not offer 3 phase even if there is 3 phase in the street, which there will be in the ground for property balancing between the phases. I've not seen three phases provided without the neutral inside the property in France either but I have seen the neutral derived by essentially providing a ground point in lieu of neutral at the property. Whether this is normal or not, I don't know as I can only base it on my own property there. Certainly don't see that in the UK. At my property in the UK, interestingly the earth is provided over the neutral from the sub-station. This quite normal for rural properties on overhead power. In this circumstance you must not physically earth to ground at the property.Hey all,
It is a little bit more complex.
Electricity is mainly distributed in 2 systems: 3 phase with a neutral and 3 phase without a neutral.
The first (3phases with a neutral) has 400V between the phases and 230V between a phase and the neutral. If this is lying into your street you could ask for a 3 phase connection and you can charge your car with 11 kW (3x16A) or even 22 kW (3x32A) at home. If they only want to connect you on one phase (and a neutral line) then you are limited to 3,7 kW (1x16A) or 7,4 kW (1x32A).
The second (3phases without neutral) is more complicated. Without electrical transformer, you can not charge over 3 phases. You can still charge on one phase like above, 3,7 kW (1x16A) or 7,4 kW (1x32A).
In some cases, but not many cars are supporting it, it electrical possible to charge on 2phases. One phase will be used as neutral, the 2 others as phases. You could then charge at 7,4 kw (2x16A which should normally work if you have a 22 kW charger in your car) or 14,8kW (2x32A), but the latest causes the biggest electrical problem for the charger in the car.
What is sure is that the distribution network isn't everywhere ready for electrification.
This will still cost a lot of money to upgrade.
Hopes this clarifies.
Hi, I had 3 phase power installed at my property last year. I had no issues with Uk power Networks. They did a survey and told me it would cost £4,500 to upgrade. I went ahead and now can install 2 charging points at 22KW each
That is unusual. Are you in a rural area with overhead power?Hi, I had 3 phase power installed at my property last year. I had no issues with Uk power Networks. They did a survey and told me it would cost £4,500 to upgrade. I went ahead and now can install 2 charging points at 22KW each
That is extremely expensive, then just via 7.4kw.Hi, I had 3 phase power installed at my property last year. I had no issues with Uk power Networks. They did a survey and told me it would cost £4,500 to upgrade. I went ahead and now can install 2 charging points at 22KW each
That is unusual. Are you in a rural area with overhead power?
That is extremely expensive, then just via 7.4kw.
It was but I did an extensive refurbishment of my property that included ground source heating. Therefore I decided to upgrade the power supply otherwise I would have been close to 100amp usage. Network Power informed me that they have limited 3 phase power connections per street and over time the costs would increased further. This is due to when all connection points have been used up on that street, they will have to find a connection point for that property in the next street and so on. The further away the connection point, the higher the costs.
I don't think that is expensive. I paid more than that for a new HV->LV transformer and bury the cables from said transformer to my house, at which point it is 3 phase into the property. If the power network will let you have it, take it! I think its a big future proof upgrade, especially if you then want a heat pump. I still think it is a shame that the iX is only 11kW on 3 phase, not 22.That is extremely expensive, then just via 7.4kw.
I'm living in Belgium and working in the electricity business (Power generation) for about 30 years. Approx. 35 years ago it was usually that you get 3 phases when you need some more power or had 3-phase motors installed at home. This has been changed 30 years ago for new buildings, they only got one phase and more amp's. Now I see that you can ask 3 phases (as they have always been in the ground or air connections) but it is more expensive then one phase (technically it cist double). In rural places and in older installations you find mostly 3x230V, but outside the cities, power has been upgraded, since more and more people are leaving the cities. You will find more 3x400V+N.That is unusual. Are you in a rural area with overhead power?
One thing will be sure: Electrification and green energy will cost! Don't believe other opinions. But do we have a choice with the climate change? It will certainly cost more when we do nothing!
I don't know about your country but in the UK with energy costs rising many low cost suppliers went bust (like the one I was with) so in just a few months low rate power for EV charging has gone from 0.045 GBP per kWh to 0.21 GBP and will be increasing to 0.28 GBP in April So the iX 50 I hope to average around at least 2.5 miles per kWh around 0.112 GBP per mile or like an ICE car doing 60 mpg (5 L/100km)One thing will be sure: Electrification and green energy will cost! Don't believe other opinions. But do we have a choice with the climate change? It will certainly cost more when we do nothing!
On the subject of charging you would be needing to be doing a serious daily mileage to justify the additional cost to get 11 instead of 7.4 kW I have an i3S charges at about 27 miles per hour at home and the iX 18, my average daily mileage is around 50-80 (12-15k per year) so I never have had an issue with home charging. The i3S cannot part charge goes to 100% the iX I set to 80% or less I have 2 chargers so could charge both cars if needed (as an early EV adopter both BMW chargers were free)
If the iX could charge at 22kW as indicated initially that would have been good for use at home for those that could, and use on AC rapid cahrgers on the move if no DC charging available
BTW I'm from the UK but in the USA right now hence Flag - I wonder how the iX would fair in the 6" of snow around Indianapolis as it is now
With the "low" milages you are driving, I would not suggest you to do the investment to go to 11kW. In our country (Belgium) prices of electricity have also raised to very high amounts. Nevertheless, also other fuels have become more expensive. 9 month's ago I paid 0.17 Euro the kWh, now 0.37 euro. For a consumption of 25kWh/100 km it makes now 9.25 euro/100km or ±5l (RON 95) for 100 km.I don't know about your country but in the UK with energy costs rising many low cost suppliers went bust (like the one I was with) so in just a few months low rate power for EV charging has gone from 0.045 GBP per kWh to 0.21 GBP and will be increasing to 0.28 GBP in April So the iX 50 I hope to average around at least 2.5 miles per kWh around 0.112 GBP per mile or like an ICE car doing 60 mpg (5 L/100km)
On the subject of charging you would be needing to be doing a serious daily mileage to justify the additional cost to get 11 instead of 7.4 kW I have an i3S charges at about 27 miles per hour at home and the iX 18, my average daily mileage is around 50-80 (12-15k per year) so I never have had an issue with home charging. The i3S cannot part charge goes to 100% the iX I set to 80% or less I have 2 chargers so could charge both cars if needed (as an early EV adopter both BMW chargers were free)
If the iX could charge at 22kW as indicated initially that would have been good for use at home for those that could, and use on AC rapid cahrgers on the move if no DC charging available
BTW I'm from the UK but in the USA right now hence Flag - I wonder how the iX would fair in the 6" of snow around Indianapolis as it is now
I just got a quote from UKPN £5577 - and that's just to bring 3 phase up to the boundary, not beyond that. Will stick to 7.4kW I think. Also looking at solar panels.
You need to have 3 phases and one neutral wire to get 3x400V system (three-phase with star connection). Then you can charge with an iX at 3x16A with 230V. This will give you 11kW charging capability.I just got a quote from UKPN £5577 - and that's just to bring 3 phase up to the boundary, not beyond that. Will stick to 7.4kW I think. Also looking at solar panels.
If the system is 3x230V without neutral (three-phase with delta connection), you will be limited to charge in monophase. The capability will be 32A @230V which is 7,4 kW.
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
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